Peer review process
Not revised: This Reviewed Preprint includes the authors’ original preprint (without revision), an eLife assessment, public reviews, and a provisional response from the authors.
Read more about eLife’s peer review process.Editors
- Reviewing EditorAudrey SederbergGeorgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, United States of America
- Senior EditorKate WassumUniversity of California, Los Angeles, Los Angeles, United States of America
Reviewer #1 (Public review):
Summary:
The authors introduce ordinal EPR (Dsym) as a novel metric for characterizing tFUS-evoked calcium responses. The concept is interesting and could offer an innovative way of looking at neural responses to neuromodulation more broadly. Their main result, that EPR carries information beyond mean GCaMP amplitude, is compelling, but the manuscript would be strengthened by testing whether it holds against other conventional GCaMP metrics beyond mean amplitude (e.g. decay time). More importantly, the EPR metric requires further validation before its central claim, that it reflects genuine dynamical reorganization of the underlying circuit rather than artifacts of the measurement pipeline (e.g. GCaMP indicator kinetics), can be accepted. A rigorous surrogate/synthetic signal validation would be a very valuable, if not essential, addition to this paper.
Strengths:
This manuscript frames tFUS-evoked activity in a way that is uncommon in the field. Moving beyond amplitude-based readouts to ask how sonication reshapes the temporal organization of neural activity is a novel contribution to the ultrasound neuromodulation literature. The finding that EPR shows a distinct dose-response profile from calcium amplitude and retains dose-related structure after controlling for amplitude, is a promising demonstration that this framework can extract information not visible to conventional measures.
Methods are very detailed and well explained for reproducibility purposes.
Weaknesses:
Major weaknesses:
EPR may carry information beyond mean GCaMP amplitude- but is it carrying information beyond other elements of the GCaMP signal? For the on-target recovery window, the calcium signal has not yet returned to baseline (original data traces, Fig. 2C, Fig. 4A), so the trace still contains a residual decay transient at the time Dsym is computed. This decay rate reflects neuronal activity returning to baseline and will be dependent on things such as calcium indicator kinetics. Would a change in Dsym always accompany this kind of decay, regardless of whether this has anything to do with endogenous dynamics, irreversibility etc.? Would any gradual return to baseline/decay of this kind produce elevated Dsym on its own, independent of underlying stochastic fluctuations/endogenous dynamics? Is it not expected that a system that is not at steady state shows entropy production? Perhaps the decay rate is simply different by dose, which explains the findings? Could this be tested i.e. with synthetic data or by removing the decay? The fact that a change in EPR is measured when there is no significant GCaMP change indicates that the measure is not purely dominated by decay kinetics but it is not clear whether decay kinetics etc. could be confounding this result.
GCaMP's rise and decay kinetics are asymmetric (fast rise, slow decay). Since Dsym is a measure of asymmetry between forward and time-reversed ordinal statistics, could this kinetic asymmetry alone have any impact on "irreversibility", independent of underlying neural dynamics? Could this be tested with synthetic data? The authors note that the GCaMP signal is filtered through an indicator with slow kinetics but don't mention the asymmetry.
When different stimulation periods are used, what impact if any, does this have on computation of the EPR metric?
What impact does having a noisier/lower SNR calcium signal have on the EPR metric, if any?
Minor weaknesses:
The major advantage of TUS as a non-invasive brain stimulation technique is its capacity for spatially focused deep brain stimulation. However, it carries a significant auditory confound, which leads to activation of widespread (not spatially restricted) neuronal networks (Kop et al., 2024; Sato et al., 2018). The data used in this paper does not adequately control for this confound (i.e. deafened animals (Guo et al., 2023; Sato et al., 2018). Whilst this is not the responsibility of the authors of this manuscript, it should be mentioned in the discussion that any of the tFUS-calcium evoked responses could be due to indirect auditory stimulation rather than a direct pressure-mediated effect. The authors may just be measuring EPR in response to the auditory confound, which does not undermine the overall impact of this paper (as it is more focused on an approach to looking at this kind of data), but should be mentioned. I do think that presence of the auditory confound could impact interpretability of the results in the manuscript. Could the authors comment on this? Could auditory mediated arousal or state shift (perhaps activating brain regions not captured by the fiber) explain any of the presented EPR results or affect interpretation?
Guo, H., Salahshoor, H., Wu, D., Yoo, S., Sato, T., Tsao, D. Y., & Shapiro, M. G. (2023). Effects of focused ultrasound in a "clean" mouse model of ultrasonic neuromodulation. iScience, 26(12). https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2023.108372
Kop, B. R., Shamli Oghli, Y., Grippe, T. C., Nandi, T., Lefkes, J., Meijer, S. W., Farboud, S., Engels, M., Hamani, M., Null, M., Radetz, A., Hassan, U., Darmani, G., Chetverikov, A., den Ouden, H. E., Bergmann, T. O., Chen, R., & Verhagen, L. (2024). Auditory confounds can drive online effects of transcranial ultrasonic stimulation in humans. eLife, 12, RP88762. https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.88762
Sato, T., Shapiro, M. G., & Tsao, D. Y. (2018). Ultrasonic Neuromodulation Causes Widespread Cortical Activation via an Indirect Auditory Mechanism. Neuron, 98(5), 1031-1041.e5. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neuron.2018.05.009
Reviewer #2 (Public review):
Summary:
The present paper studies the entropy production rate (EPR) before, during, and after thalamic sonication in freely moving mice from a previously published dataset. The motivation is that EPR contains information about the dynamics of neural activity that is not present in the average calcium amplitude. It was observed that the change in EPR reaches a maximum at an intermediate stimulation dosage, in contrast to the change in overall calcium amplitude, which increases monotonically with dose in the on-target condition. The paper further observes a statistically significant relation between the baseline EPR and the change in EPR during stimulation, but not for recovery, as well as a similar relation for the calcium response. The manuscript draws an analogy between the non-monotonic dependence and stochastic resonance.
Overall, these results present an interesting analysis of how acoustic stimulation affects the dynamics of neural activity. In my view, these tools would be quite useful for quantifying changes in neural activity under different perturbations.
Strength:
The study is well motivated by the argument that quantifying neural response requires information about dynamics that is not contained in the average calcium amplitude. EPR or irreversibility has been shown to be a powerful tool in describing out-of-equilibrium biological processes. The paper successfully quantifies irreversibility using an ordinal surrogate of the entropy production rate. The non-monotonic dependence is an interesting result, which demonstrates (with caveats stated in Weakness) that EPR contains more information about neural response than the average calcium amplitude. Furthermore, the paper also clearly states limitations of the approach and performs a robustness check by varying the parameters used in the ordinal EPR estimation.
Weakness:
(1) My main concern, as the authors have touched upon in the Discussion, is that although irreversibility clearly provides a readout of the neuronal dynamics, it remains unclear what its biological significance is. While it is related to susceptibility, the mechanistic link remains weak. I suspect that this interpretability issue will limit the impact of this approach.
(2) I wonder how the measured irreversibility is affected by the asymmetric response of GCaMP, which typically rises quickly and decays slowly. It seems possible that this temporal asymmetry, combined with the average calcium response, already leads to a non-monotonic irreversibility curve. The paper should investigate this and other potential contributors to the temporal irreversibility in the readout.
(3) As shown in Fig. 2AB, the baseline EPR already varies considerably with acoustic intensity, by an amount comparable to the change in EPR after stimulation (Fig. 2E). Since the baseline window precedes stimulation, this variation cannot be caused by the sonication. It suggests either that the uncertainty in EPR quantification is larger than the error bars indicate, or that trials at different nominal intensities differ systematically in some other respect. It should be examined whether the non-monotonic trend is statistically significant in light of this baseline fluctuation.
